The old saying goes, “Heavy is the head that wears the crown.”
And no one wants that weight more than Cody Rhodes.
This Saturday, Cody challenges Chris Jericho for the AEW World Title at Full Gear — the first official pay-per-view in the company’s “Dynamite Era.” Rhodes has pushed his chips to the center of the table, something he’s become known for the past two years, and has stated if he does not win the title this Saturday, he will never challenge for it again.
Hot off the heels off his critically-acclaimed promo on this week’s episode of Dynamite, you can literally taste Rhodes’ desire to win this title, and be the “quarterback” of the highly talented AEW roster. As a fan, the emotion, the true emotion, the second generation wrestler put into his promo was, pun intended, undeniable. For Rhodes, his time on the microphone wasn’t a way to sell tickets, it was a glimpse into his soul. That soul-bearing honesty has not only propelled Cody to the top of AEW, but it’s what has made AEW beloved to its fanbase.
We spoke to “The American Nightmare” Cody Rhodes on a media conference call to discuss the company’s first PPV in the “Dynamite Era,” his match with Chris Jericho, his highly acclaimed promo leading into the show, and what his iconic father would think of AEW.
It’s been said that time off is a wrestler’s worst enemy. You’re working once a week since Dynamite began. Talk about the differences in terms of how your body responds to working a full-time schedule for WWE compared to your current schedule and AEW.
Cody Rhodes: You’ve got to be able to get your reps in as a professional wrestler. There’s really no way to train for pro wrestling, the cardio aspect of it. Roadwork is what the old timers used to call it. Actual long runs was one of the only things they could equate to it. But still, because there’s a nature of theatrics, of sports, of bodybuilding, of the vanity of it all — it is very difficult to prepare for doing it other than doing it itself.
So in the six weeks [of Dynamite] it’s been nice to for men and women to get their reps in. [With] AEW: Dark, which has been a like a monster hit for the All Elite YouTube Channel, there’s a reason that those matches are going a little bit longer. Not only do we want only to get the fans long, quality, sports-centric type matches, but we want our talent to be able to push themselves, and do so in that way.
There is such a thing as too much. I don’t know if you’ve noticed for this particular rivalry with Chris and myself, I have not wrestled as frequently on the show. That to me, at my age, and where I’m at in my career, I feel the best ever going into this show tomorrow, the most prepared. I think that’s one of our big feathers in our cap is preparation. So it’s somewhere in the middle if that makes any sense.
How do you feel about the critical acclaim you received from your promo on Wednesday?Â
Cody Rhodes: The funny thing about it is that I could not hear myself because there’s some things we add to our compliment [our production], including a speaker in the ring for talent to be able to hear themselves when they’re talking on a microphone. So it was sensory overload for me out there. I was very connected to what I was saying because it’s my life. Sometimes it’s a curse to not be able to hide under a mask or be a character and there are times it is a blessing. Right now it’s been a blessing.
I’m not hiding from who I am. I’m not hiding from my position here. What I said in the interview about not challenging for the AEW World Championship ever again if I don’t beat Chris, it’s very authentic. There’s no plot, logic device, or hole in that statement. That’s something I had heard from fans. That controversy surrounded people like my dad, like Bill Watts and Verne Gagne and I refuse to have that controversy in my run.
We have enough young and hungry men and women that I want to help showcase. And at the same time I’m in the best run of my career so that if I’m not so worried about all the comparisons and praise, including from somebody like The Rock, all you can do is kind of tip your cap back.
I prepared for this job and I prepared for that moment. This is the biggest rivalry I’ve ever been involved with and the stakes are as high as they’ve ever been. Wrestling is best when it’s real. So I don’t know if you can even call it a promo. It was just a real statement from me and I’m glad it resonated with fans. I really am.
A lot of people are saying this is the biggest match of your very long, very illustrious career. I know what you said in the promo, but tell us today, Cody Rhodes, in your gut, how important in your career, in your life, is this match and why?
Cody Rhodes: I had a really good coach and mentor in my career and in my life; a man I met in Los Angeles named Howard Fine. One of the things that Howard used to say to me all the time when talking about this job was — the truth doesn’t need weight. In entertainment we put weight on things all the time. [Even with] the biggest spectacle ever there’s always these qualifiers. You enter into hyperbole and exaggeration, but I’ve had no problem with this because it isn’t an exaggeration. This is the biggest match of my career. It’s coming at the most perfect time in my career. I found my stance in the batter’s box. Believe me, when the company started in January, and I know that someone like Kenny Omega is on the roster, and then Chris Jericho enters the fray, and then Jon Moxley, and in addition to being an EVP that, well, I want to be the quarterback.
The only thing that wins in today’s wrestling isn’t politics. It isn’t any of the things that plagued wrestling years ago. It’s content. Being able to go out there and get the best reaction because you’re giving them the best competition. You’re giving them the best performance. And for me I don’t want to hit a slump. I’ve got to keep going on where it’s onwards and upwards. There’s a lot riding on this.
I don’t mean to get emotional or on a rant here, but I don’t just take my own pressure into these matches. There’s a great deal of pressure that’s been put on us by the fan base, the lapsed fan, the returner, these fans who are back, who want what we said to not be campaign promises. They want what we said to be real. And so far it has been. So I carry that into every match and I don’t think it’s too much weight. That’s the pressure I want. That’s what I’ve prepared for. I’ve had a lifetime to prepare for a 60 minute match that that’s coming tomorrow night and it’s moving really fast. But I’m going to take it all in because it is the biggest match of my career for the most important title. Like I said the truth doesn’t need weight. It would be the pinnacle of my career, as my mother said, to leave Royal Farms Arena, AEW World Champion.
You had mentioned in an interview there were certain aspects of production from other companies [like WWE] that you didn’t quite like. Now, in stepping behind the camera are things you’ve realized you definitely don’t need, or realize that there are some things you do?
Cody Rhodes: Oh yeah. I think if you read some of my interviews and the stuff that gets clickbait-ed it sounds like I can’t stand Kevin Dunn and the way he produced wrestling. But that’s not the case. If you look at WrestleMania he’s [created] a footprint of the spectacle event. He’s done wonderful things with production. I like taking the things that I did get from WWE and my time there, the good ones, and bringing them into our production.
But also there’s an aspect of production that is more sports-based that Keith Mitchell brings that I love. [In WWE] You couldn’t see a camera or a light on stage with tape on it, if that makes any sense. There’s these things that were just outlawed and these rules that [are not] pro wrestling rules, they’re WWE rules. There’s a grit and difference to the way Keith Mitchell produces our television and [the way] Tim Wahlberg, our master director directs.
Something that’s been very important to me as an EVP, and it’s something that I include in every weekly debrief cause I debrief every show, is that the production and the talent, and the production and the AEW staff are a family. You guys need to know each other’s names. You guys don’t need to bark at each other. These cameraman on the floor will become your best friends. I’ve already seen people like Darby Allin learning to talk with the cameramen and learning [to tell them] ‘Hey, look for this and look for that.’ He’s ahead of the curve.
All the greats were able to do that. There’s this time honored, and I don’t know why it’s time honored element, of production and the creative pushing back on each other. With AEW, I will not allow it and neither will Matt, Nick, Kenny or Tony. We’re a family and we’re going to be together every week. So I really like how Keith Mitchell produces television. There’s an element of danger and spontaneity and grit to it that I think belongs in wrestling.
You mentioned before that championships are going to matter more in AEW. That said there’s a lot of young talent on the roster. What are the chances of adding a mid-card championship to give the younger guys something to fight for?
Cody Rhodes: The chances of adding a mid-card, a title or a prize? I get frustrated when I hear the term mid-card. I know that it exists. I’m someone who toiled in the mid-card myself. But, as a talent you never consider anything you’re doing mid-card. I didn’t consider my run with the Intercontinental Championship mid-card. I wanted to be the best thing [on the show]. I wanted it to rise above. If you look at Wembley Stadium in 1992 [the IC title match] rose above the main match. If you look at Wrestle Kingdom the year that their IC title would go on last, the same thing.Â
With my little rant aside, I think it’s very possible in the next month there will be a prize of some sorts for the guys rising through the ranks. That is important to wrestling and there’s so many great ones [secondary titles] out there, that we’ve looked at through history, those great titles.
But I never would consider it a mid-card title and that’s why it’s been slow. We feel the same way you feel in your line of questioning. But, we’ve got to make sure that the Women’s Championship and Riho is really at the same level that Chris Jericho is with the World Championship and then Frankie Kazarian and Scorpio Sky [with the tag titles]. It’s not willy nilly handing these belts out, handing these prizes out will matter and the next one will matter just as much.
Is there any update on the ranking system?
Cody Rhodes: Hopefully this this evening we will have the Top Fives out for not only men but for the tag and for the women’s division. That was something that I promise[d] and I’m excited it’s happening before Full Gear [especially with] Full Gear being the first PPV of the Dynamite era and the third major event of our big four. So you will see a rankings today and if you don’t you can all call me out and internet the heck out of me. The top fives are going out today as promised, and they’ll be out hopefully every Friday.
How difficult has it been so far to separate constructive criticism versus complaining to complain. And do you have an example of any feedback you’ve received so far that you’ve applied since Dynamite’s debut?
Cody Rhodes: There is a difference between constructive criticism and then what I would call narrative criticism — people who are sucked into the narrative, which is a beautiful thing if you’re a pro wrestler. One example just to give you, because I do it every week, it’s one thing that I love doing. I’m not sure everybody else loves receiving them, but I debrief every show, meaning we could have an absolute grand slam home run show [but] you’re still going to get an email from me the next day. Everybody, every department that says, “Hey, here’s something I thought we could do better.” And that will happen for as long as I can think.
Music has been discussed a lot. The music when you watch AEW program is piped into the mix which is then piped into the feed. There’s been a lot of people who want to hear the songs more. I think we will bump the audio levels on the mix for the songs, but we don’t like piping it into the main program for the fact that we want to hear our audience. AEW has a really raucous, wild environment. If you’ve been to a show live, I can’t compare it to another wrestling show because it’s genuinely [different]. There’s very little sitting on hands. There’s a lot of fire in that audience and we want to hear them and the cost sometimes is not hearing the music. We would rather hear the fans as loud as they are because they’ve been so generous and we’re so grateful for them. And hopefully Royal Farms is that same type of echoing, just massive acoustic boom that comes with an AEW show.Â
But just as an example, music is something that I monitor every week because I want to make sure there’s a difference. You know, I want to hear our people, but the fans really are asking for and want to hear these songs like Chris’ ‘Judas’ or my ‘Kingdom’ or ‘Super Kick Party’ or Private Party’s music. I mean there’s so many good songs that Mikey Ruckus, our composer, has developed for us. So that’s an example of one. We’ll see tweets. I love constructive criticism, I really do. It’s quite easy to spot even with millions and millions of engagements on social media. It’s not that hard to see the difference between a troll, somebody wants to see you fail, and someone who says something [constructive]. Then you see it again and then you see it again. We have a great social media and digital director who monitors that throughout the show. [They] annoyingly come stand over my shoulder at the go position and tell me, ‘Hey, this was wrong. We need to fix this.’ No one’s taking for granted what we have here.
You mentioned earlier that you want the Women’s Title to be respected as highly as the World Title. We see just one match per week for the women’s division on Dynamite and one on Dark. Are there any plans to feature more of this division so the fans at home can get to know the rest of the women’s roster in AEW?
Cody Rhodes: Absolutely. Not only plans to have a more women’s representation on Dynamite in match form, but in VTR, in interview, in vignette. One thing that’s been an honest element of what we’re doing is we have a lot of foreign talent. To have foreign talent properly work for us requires a work visa. In this political climate those are rather difficult to get. Chris Harrington and Christopher Daniels have been outstanding about procuring and making sure that Joshi talent, Shana from Portugal, all get in properly and legally. So that’s been something that’s kind of been difficult.
In terms of the representation, because we have a very international women’s division… I’m just kind of going on a bit of a detour here, but Emmy and Riho, their match this Saturday, is maybe the one I’m looking forward to the most, the teacher versus student aspect of it. What Kenny Omega is doing with the women’s division is really something that deserves praise. And he’s, he’s really trying to do something different. [As for] Riho I think we’ve all fallen in love with her and that this audience is falling in love with her. You had a Southern based crowd chanting “This is awesome” for two women who they had definitely never seen before this past week in Charlotte. And that’s a great indicator.
But to answer the question for sure the women’s representation will uptick. I’d say probably immediately coming out of Full Gear.
What do you think is the biggest lesson you’ve learned about producing a live TV show every week, and what do you foresee being your biggest possible hurdle going forward?
Cody Rhodes: The biggest lesson I’ve learned, particularly as an EVP, I call it the diplomacy of wrestling. It’s how we speak to each other. I’m sure you have people in your own life that when something goes wrong or goes differently, there’s an element of panic. I refuse to panic when it comes to that two hour broadcast. We have to hit our crossover, we have to make our commercial times, we have to go off with enough pad and please our Warner Media partners. So if a problem comes up, we’ve got to move on to the next thing.
And there’s something … it’s kind of silly … but I don’t let anyone run up to me at TV and say, “Here’s the thing,” or “Hey, we’ve got an issue.” You have to start with a “Hey, how are you?” Do something as simple as that. Really. I don’t like panic and it’s in a lot of people the nature of panicking. I’ve also really found some unsung heroes as far as production goes that we couldn’t do this without — from our associate producers, our coaches. If anything I’ve learned, a huge lesson I’ve learned is that the value of a coach [like] Dean Malenko, who hosted a tag team seminar last week. Or the value of a coach like Arn Anderson. He was there this past week and you know Arn Anderson is not connected with AEW other than a peripheral element and he did AEW: Dark.
The value of these guys who drew money and entertained people, that’s so important to instill, even if the generation is totally different, even if the matches are totally different, there’s still that ring. There’s still that fan in the seat. There’s magic in their words. So that’s something, the value of a coach, the value of a proper security force, the value of good production, the value of a good director, the value of great stage hands.
When I go out and there’s the big pyro and this big presentation, I’m a product of 30 people propping me up to look to look like that and be represented like that. I might as well just tweet you a list of people that just do a great job. The value of those people, you can’t undersell it.
The biggest hurdle for us is maintaining the buzz, maintaining the cool thing. I don’t think it’s as big as a hurdle as we think because all we have to do is stay disciplined and true to ourselves. We cannot change what we plan and we cannot become a reactionary brand. The only reactionary brand we can be as reactionary to our own audience, not to what somebody else is doing on TV.
Can you go into more detail about the three judges who would be on hand to score your match with Jericho. Will they be familiar faces and will judges be used in the future for future championship matches?
Cody Rhodes: As far as the judges are concerned I am not tasked [to pick them] because it is my match and it’s a conflict of interest. I know that per Tony Khan the judges are championship caliber judges. So yes, familiar faces. These judges here, if he goes 60 minutes at the champions advantage is not in play because the judges is much more in my favor then I think it is in Chris’s favor.
But with all that said, I just gave the world my word and giving you my word that I’m never challenging for the world title again if I don’t defeat Chris Jericho’s so I think this type of match more than ever needed judges. Looking forward down the road, I wouldn’t be surprised if you see the judges not only for the AEW World championship, but the AEW Women’s World Championship. I think it’s a great thing. It’s been done in wrestling before, very successfully. So I think you’ll be excited and I think Baltimore will be excited to see the judges we have.
Given how much your father loved the business, and how much work he did with up and coming wrestlers in the WWE Performance Center, what do you think he would think about what you’re doing with AEW Dynamite and up and coming stars like Darby Allin and Private Party?
Cody Rhodes: That’s such a loaded question. I wish I could wake him up. There would be so much I would have to explain, but wrestling sometimes explain itself. I’ll give you an example. My dad went to ECW. He was dreading it. He was dreading walking into the Tabernacle in Georgia. He was dreading going there to be made fun of by Steve Corino. And that night when he came back, he was in love with it. It had changed his outlook and it literally filled his soul back up with wrestling. It broke his heart for a little while and then “bam” he was back in the game and the fans brought him back in. The talent and the psychology and the take that they had on wrestling was vastly different from what he was doing in Florida or with Jim Crockett Promotions.
He had an open mind and I think that all you’d have to do is sit him down in front of Dynamite. And I think he would really be not just happy for me, or just happy for Dustin or Brandi or any of his old cohorts who are now my cohorts. I think he’d be happy for wrestling. Look at our current situation in the world. It’s the most divisive we’ve ever been as a country. And it’s happening globally. Never more as entertainment has wrestling been such a valued service in creating that escape for the fan.
He genuinely believed that “The American Dream” was very real and that his job was making people forget about their days, forget about their concerns and enjoy something on a weekly basis. So if he sees Dynamite, he sees that. I’m the expert on Dusty. A lot of people like to tell me they’re the expert on what he would like and what he wouldn’t. I knew the man. I could tell you what he would like and what he would like is fans going nuts, which is something that we’ve had the benefit of doing as totally Blanchard would say, keep them the loudest, the longest. Dusty was the same way. I would just show them dynamite and I know he’d love it.
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